Joy as Counterculture: Building Quiet Climate Influence with Andrea Learned

Kim Allchurch Flick: Hello everyone. Welcome. I am delighted today to have Andrea Learned join me. Andrea is Climate Influence Catalyst and podcast host. Andrea is an author, speaker, commentator, and podcaster with a mission to catalyze climate influence. Leveraging her established platform on Blue Sky and Substack.

She identifies and amplifies the people, places, and projects that are quietly changing the world. Andrea co-created and hosted the award-Winning Living Change, a Quest for Climate Leadership Podcast, and is currently incubating her new show. Name and fame with Andrea Learned. She is most known for her Deep Climate Network and her counterintuitive leadership visibility approach, which centers on loving others up with an early career in marketing to women during which she co-authored the book.

Don’t think pink. What really makes women buy and how to increase your share of this crucial market. Andrea’s background may seem winding, but it all aligns beautifully through the lens of her contagious joy in celebrating big unexpected impact. Today we’re gonna talk about joy, the counterculture way to build climate influence.

Welcome, 

Andrea Learned: oh, I’m so happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: This just speaks to my heart in so many ways. As we were talking before I just love the thought of your journey being windy, and I guess I myself have had a windy journey from being a biology major to an MBA, to being in all sorts of business aspects of the world, and yet the biology major has been screaming to get out.

And do things about climate, and I love dirt therapy. So welcome, welcome what has inspired you and been your inspiration and a journey to bring you to all of this that you are and doing now? 

Andrea Learned: I’ve only probably recently really figured it out because I just keep moving forward, but I’m looking for things that bring me joy.

It turns out. And try to hit the high points. I started really in college. I was a poly sci major. I didn’t know what I was gonna do. I ended up doing public relations sorts of things in a variety of roles, right outta college. And then the marketing to women thing came up and.

It’s really interesting because what comes out of that is that it’s like a marketing book and it’s like women’s consumer behavior. And for me it was really like, oh, in the back of my head I was thinking like, oh, they’re a powerful force. They’re powerful force influencing things. It’s interesting to figure out how they make decisions broadly.

In other words, I wasn’t as interested myself in selling more stuff to women because now here I am in climate and sustainability and I would hope that people would maybe consider buying less. And even at the time before my climate world, I was just like, I don’t think women need more help buying stuff.

But what was interesting to me was how do these women make decisions? And so the fast forward from that is. Then I was like, oh, I’m actually interested in leading thinkers, and so then it became women as leaders. Then it became leadership, then it became sustainability and climate leadership.

That’s how I got there. Now I did a master’s degree. So later in my life on in sustainable business and communities. And the whole point of my thesis was to look at how men, who are leaders in, because sustainability leaders for corporations, how they think or what they would say the key traits are that help them be the best leader in a sustainability position.

And I wasn’t able to do, like scientifically do a hundred interviews or whatever, but I talked with a couple of really great guys and they were just like, they were like, listen. It’s psychology, communication skills, all these things that get attributed to women’s ways of leading. And they were just like, it has nothing to do with my MBA, it has to do with communications and kind of psychology and building community engagement. And so that sort of set me on this path. And long story short, I have joy in discovering in this knowledge. And just oh, that’s another puzzle piece, right? So then that’s another puzzle piece. And so then I realized that. I could get my writing out more and be more visible with this thoughts and kind of the cool people I was talking to if I got better at social media.

So I got better. I’m an early Twitter user. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Oh, okay. 

Andrea Learned: And that led to me getting some significant kind of contracts or opportunities in, climate, NGO social media, like during COP 21. And as I was doing that, I was like, oh, I should just be building my name as well as forwarding this organization.

And then that’s how I became someone who’s just, and I say this a lot, I’ve never been with an organization per se, for longer than a year contract. I’ve never worked in some big corporate role. I’ve just been quietly building my own influence. And so to your point with the question, I think it’s been joy and curiosity that keeps pushing me forward.

And all along the way I realized, oh, I’m also building more kind of contacts and networks for myself. Ultimately, I’ll figure out how to. Leverage that for good, and I think that that’s where I am with my career now. Like I’ve built all these pieces, I’ve had all this curiosity. Now I don’t have the world’s biggest network known demand, and I’m on blue sky, not Instagram, i’m on the more written word related social media platform, but I’ve got. High quality people that are following me that are interested what I have to say, because I’ve been building this up for so long and it’s all because I’ve been following a thread of joy and my own curiosity, I would say.

Kim Allchurch Flick: That’s fascinating. And with those connections, how is that shaping your world view further and how are they listening to you? How is it changing some of these thought leaders? 

Andrea Learned: What I’m realizing is that I’m bringing more, I feel like I’m bringing more permission for them to be themselves. A lot of times when people, when I’ve advised people in the past, they’ve been like, we gotta up our numbers and how do I get more known on this platform or that platform?

And I’m just like, listen, back it up. Are you yourself on this platform or is your PR team for your nonprofit doing your feed? And I’m just like, I don’t wanna follow your, the structured kind of way that a PR team would do a feed for a person. I’ll give you an example, and I don’t know for sure, I believe that this person, but Paul Pullman, remember Unilever fame, he was, he’s been big and using social media well for a long time.

And even way back in those old, COP 21, 20 15, that era. He was really good and you got the sense that he was doing it himself. What he would share what he would do and that’s an example of someone with a lot of visibility, a lot of influence just being himself on there.

I believe that he’s continued to do that. I haven’t followed him lately, but that’s what I’m looking for. In other words, the leader. Is not an arm of the organization like they are the organization, but the leader needs to be sharing in their way as a human. And so that ended up being what I started to advise people on what my secret sauce was.

And in a way. What I like to do is not get on people for it, but just go, Hey, did you realize that the fact that you like basketball is something you could throw into here? You have permission to do that. You have permission to be a human being. And so that connects to what I do because I ride my bike for transportation and it just came because it was faster.

And I really liked it. And so that’s become part of my brand. And so the stuff I’m selling comes from me and is like personal joys that happen to have climate influence. And that’s what I wanna advise people and nudge more people to do. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Oh I love that. And along the way, what do you see as problems and the solutions that you can help create that you are creating but help others create, 

Andrea Learned: Problems with?

Doing that or with what? 

Kim Allchurch Flick: It’s a big question and I apologize. I think what I see as problems is sometimes resistance or, like this particular time is 20, early 2026. There’s some inherent problems that are huge but also sometimes money is not available to make progress or lack of understanding of what issues are.

And I think one example that I see is. As I learned more and more about recycling through time, I did a project on it through Portland State a few years ago, and recycling was broken then, and there’s a lot more that’s bad about it than good, but yet it feels like a panacea because we’re fed that and it’s no one’s fault to think that recycling is something they should do, but understanding the systems means.

A lot of it’s broken and some people are doing some innovative things, but it’s still very, very wasteful and negative to the planet. So what are some solutions and how do we learn our way out of it to do better? Is one like an example that I came up with? 

Andrea Learned: I 

think 

Kim Allchurch Flick: so what do you see as things like that are issues that are in intransigent?

Andrea Learned: I think this is what I’ll respond to that with, and you can ask me if this wasn’t clear enough but. Like I, so for example, I’m vegan and so I forward kinda a plant-based diet. Also, I’m someone who rides a bike for local transportation. I currently don’t have a car, but I have in the past. So all that is to say, I’m not saying no one should ever have a car, right?

I’m saying, wow, consider bikes for local transportation. I’m also not saying. You’re horrible because you eat meat and dairy. I’m not gonna say that. I’m saying you’ll be blown away by how much better you feel healthwise and you will find joy and you don’t even realize. Kind of what a ethical weight it is on your head that you’re eating animals.

I I don’t even really get into that. So I think it’s this extreme situation that we’re in where you’re either for us or you’re against us. And I’m just saying, I’m aiming for the better world. I was just talking with somebody, you’re listening to a podcast about this and I did have a conversation with one of the people I interviewed for Living Change about.

The idea of going vegan and people are like, I could never go vegan. I could never, and a lot of the thing is, I can’t give up dairy. And so the person that I was talking to was like, so I tell people, go ahead, eat, plant, place as much as you can and keep eating pizza or whatever. So it, and then the fact is, and this is what I know.

It’s gonna self perpetuate. You’re gonna realize that eating cheese and pizza maybe doesn’t feel that good. And you’ll but no one’s saying you can’t eat cheese. I guess the point is that I use the term veer, right? Veer plant-based, because I trust in my soul that if you veer plant-based, you’re gonna keep veering and veering and veering because you feel so dang good.

And I think the other thing with bikes is transportation. Veer towards a bike to take your kid to school. It will change your life because you’ll go, oh my gosh, these two mile trips. Are so much more fun and so I’m not, meanwhile, that person could have three SUVs parked in their driveway, right?

It is what it is. I trust the universe that ultimately they’ll be like, Hey, I guess I don’t need that third SUV. So the whole thing is happening. It may feel like it isn’t overnight, but the other element of that kind of, from my work and climate influences. If you are out there having joy in riding your child to school on an e cargo bike, you better believe other people waiting in line in their SUVs in the school line are gonna be like that person looks like they’re having a lot of joy.

You are gonna be influencing people. Same thing with plant-based, like you don’t run around with a t-shirt that says I’m vegan and I’m never gonna go anywhere to a restaurant with people who aren’t vegan. You just go, you just. Invite your friends to come to a great vegan spot and you just don’t hammer on it.

And so my whole thing is it’s influence. It’s quiet, it’s subtle, it’s one-to-one. And the power of that is that we all have networks where maybe we have 10 quote unquote influential people, right? Whatever in our circles, whatever. If we in some way impact those leaders that we know that are in our circles to maybe eat a little less meat and to maybe ride a bike to take their kids to school.

That will seep into their policymaking. They will go, oh, it will open up new avenues. And that’s the kind of quiet influence I’m talking about. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: I love that. Would it be okay if I share a brief story that was inspired by what you just said? 

Andrea Learned: Yes. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: I have a mentor since Portland State over the last decade and a half and just met with her again with another friend a couple days ago.

And this woman has held hands with the Dalai Lama. She led the business of Social Enterprise Certificate program. I went to Cambodia with her on social enterprise. Travels very, very, very inspiring. And we were talking about habits and how to change habits and how when talking or lecturing or teaching, not to try to change the whole world at once, but how maybe take one topic.

And she was very good about talking about that. And I spoke with her about how. It’s taken a while to create a new brain pathway for me to think about how to use less plastic. I said, but now it’s like, what’s the first decision I make in a grocery store when I’m looking at what to buy? And an example was salad dressing, and there’s a salad dressing I really like and I really wanted, but it’s in a plastic bottle.

Therefore it is eliminated from the choice what is the packaging. So it becomes the leading part of the choice. It’s not just do I like it, it is. Is this in something more eco-friendly? Is it in glass and is it in something cleaner? So I’m not taking microplastics, but I also don’t have to worry about plastic downstream glass.

Not a panacea, but better. And when our decision choices, priorities are shifted, that can really help. Another one is vegetables or. Or meat, how to make that decision completely eliminate factory farming. 

So if the choice is where it comes from, matters first, then the choice becomes, okay, if, ’cause I live with someone who likes to eat meat, is it a hundred percent grassfed?

Was this local, are the vegetables organic from a local farm, those kind of things, because we can still eat the vegetables and I find it, it takes a while, but reshifting, our priorities then becomes a habit, and now it’s reflexive for some of these things. And the same thing in laundry and cleaning. I managed to, through experimentation, completely eliminate plastic and all my laundry and cleaning supplies because there are innovators.

10 years ago there, those innovations may not have been there, but now there’s. Plant-based, eco-friendly packaged options out there. I was wondering how do you see that with innovations coming up and spreading that word so people don’t feel overwhelmed, but it sounds like your messaging can really get to someone to take a step at a time and not feel like they have to do it all at once.

Andrea Learned: Yeah, and the thing that I was hearing when you were telling me your stories and even in the ways that your eyes lit up, there’s one of the things is you put in front of you. Are there other choices? And then because it’s innovations, it’s exciting and your curiosity is peaked, and so then there’s joy in oh my gosh, I didn’t know they had cleaning products that came in, cardboard containers or whatever. I’m working, I’m using a laundry detergent, that normally was in a big plastic jog and now I’m using, just it’s like a paper. The cardboard little, but it’s also that kind of really condensed stuff.

So it’s this teeny tiny little thing that lasts me for like 50 loads. And I, I’m on this forever and I only just started doing that within the last like couple years and I’m like, this is so cool. So my thing is when you feel that joy bubbling up in innovation adds to the whole thing.

I’ll give you another example that’s happening right now is all of a sudden, because. Of course we saw it happening in Europe much faster. Those balcony solar panels, everyone’s like, I don’t care what color your state is, you’re interested in balcony solar panels. Hello. Like that’s, and that’s joy.

That’s a human joy. And you mean I could generate a little electricity and lower my electrical bill. You’re a Democrat, you’re Republican, you’re in on that and there’s a joy in going, this is so cool because there’s also a joy in telling your neighbor how cool it is. And I, that’s something I found with e-bikes and e cargo bikes, if there’s joy in innovation and I think that we aim if innovators can be telling stories that really integrate the joy aspect of that, of did you know that you could do the same thing? But in this approach people are just like, ah, they’re all over it. So I think I saw that in your eyes and in this like awareness. Once you like make an intention I’m not gonna, I’m gonna look at the choice and if I have a choice not to buy plastic, I’m gonna go.

That just opens up the world to packaging innovations. And same thing with going plant-based or attempting to, I think there’s. Joy in that. And I, so I can’t remember the rest of your question, but I wanted to point that out. Your eyes lit up and you get excited. I do the same thing when I’m talking about these various things that I’m involved in.

Kim Allchurch Flick: That is so cool. As you speak to people, how do you see people catching on? And if somebody isn’t or is resistant, what are some of the resistances that you come up against still? 

Andrea Learned: One of the things that I’m trusting more in humanity, I think that there are a lot of people that are pushing their joy or their curiosity down because it isn’t cool.

It isn’t in our culture. And so what I’m saying more and more is that this is counterculture, it used to be the hippies in Haight Ashbury, smoking pot, whatever, patchouli oil. And now the counterculture is those of us who are like wanting to ride an e-bike and grow our own food and do these things.

And so it, I think counterculture is the new black. Like we should be cheering that on. And I think that lies just under the surface of a lot more people than we think and that so many of us, particularly probably, that are like ensconced in corporate business. They’re the CEO or they’ve been there for 20 years and they like, they, they’re expected to make decisions this way and it’s expected to be, just these little nudges here and there no big pivots for innovation that comes out of nowhere.

I think that we have to tap more into our personal values and our personal joy. And then go, oh my gosh, this opens up a whole new, and I think that that’s just under the surface with a lot of people and they’re not giving themselves permission to listen to it and test out, making a little change that way.

So to your point. It’s more accessible if people are like, oh, I can start checking out an e-bike. Just riding my kid to school a mile away. I don’t have to tell anybody. I can keep driving, and then as it gets more and more fun, they’ll be talking about it. So I think that lies just under the surface with regard to resistance.

It’s funny because I do people get a little defensive around me ’cause they know I’m vegan and they just go, oh I still eat meat, and they cringe back and I’m like, I. That’s your prerogative. I’m certainly not here to they think they’re used to a culture of extremes and someone’s gonna jump on ’em for that.

And I make a point not to jump on it. I just, I’m just like, that’s fine. But the thing is that I know that they’re curious about someone who could go vegan. How did that work? And. Once you kind of chime in, anybody who’s gone vegan or who’s not quite gone vegan, it’s always the cheese, they’re always like, I can never live without cheese.

And so then you have this conversation and then you say, Hey, maybe try and have one meal a week without cheese, or whatever. All that is to say it’s just these, it’s these small steps, and I think that people have not tested themselves or listen to their curiosity or listen to the joy and the values in their gut.

That they’d really like to express a little bit more, but they don’t know how in our political and kind of corporate climate the way it is. And I think now more than ever, is a really good time to do it. It’s like looking at renewable energy and all of that. People, we’ve got a federal government that’s just everything’s off the list in terms of climate action.

So now the states and cities have to do stuff well. Everything’s off the table as far as big campaigns to eat less meat or whatever because our current administration isn’t gonna let that happen. So we need more of us individual people. It’s a smaller scale to be like in our communities making a difference.

We are the cities and states of bigger change in climate and I think that our, one of my things is that we each have a lot more influence than we notice or use. And that’s what I’m here, that’s why the podcast is called, gonna be called name and fame, because I’m looking for people who are doing these little things and just going, wa you know, watch this space, watch this person, watch what this person’s doing.

Check it out. I think there’s much more to be said for joy and love and like enthusiasm about cool innovations or cool things that are happening than we’ve given kind of attention to. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: I love that. And it reminds me also that years ago, one of my friends who lives in a different district of Portland than I do, said my yard is a certified backyard habitat, which came through the then Audubon Society, which is now Bird Alliance of Portland.

And it’s run by volunteers and there’s certification levels and it has to do with how, what percentage of native plants you have in a yard. And it can be a yard, it can even be. Container gardens small and up to an acre. So I got on the list and they didn’t have it in my county for two years, but I was on a waiting list.

And then we did it. And by removing bad things like Ivy and Finca, replacing it with native plants, putting out some mason bee, and it takes time, but it’s. It’s such a joy to see how things change and it’s not just for me, it’s birds and squirrels and I’m actively still killing a part of my lawn that was too shaded anyway, and putting in native ground covers that are shade tolerant and everybody’s happy around it.

It’s, and just the amount of creatures and watching spring and the seasons change, it’s really inspiring. I still see in the neighborhood people with leaf blowers where we keep the leaves. I just move ’em around and, but some people are also catching on and every once in a while you see another certified backyard habitat sign pop up and pop up.

And I, I think people do get encouraged and sometimes people catch on slowly or they they hang on to thinking lawns are beautiful. It’s all a matter of. Slowly learning what the differences are, but I love what you said about individuals slowly starting to create a collective. Can make a difference even if we haven’t met each other.

Numbers start to really make a difference. 

Andrea Learned: I think to your point, this kind of longer term thing, again, our culture is I tried that. It didn’t work, overnight. And it’s and to your point with the joys of the I’ve done the same thing, I killed my whole front yard over time and I do this, every time I see another bird in my front tree that I planted in a big thing that just used to be a big pile of grass, I’m just like, oh my gosh, there’s a bird.

The joy, these little, again, it’s innovation that you’re doing, right? You’re like, I’m gonna kill my yard and I’ll figure out what plants and dah, dah, dah, dah. And then you’re like, oh my gosh, a butterfly appeared and you’re like, your day is made. I think that people don’t remember what that’s like, and I think it’s this longer term game, and we’ve become a culture that if it doesn’t work in a sales quarter.

It’s not a thing. And I think even when I’ve been involved in conversations or like moderated panels or something on, say a corporation moving in the direction of more plant-based food in their, what used to be, catering services or their food service when corporations still had lunch rooms or whatever that.

It’s this longer term game and everyone that’s in the process, the chef, the people who come to dine, whatever, they’re in a learning process and all of a sudden they’ve got more plant-based meals to choose from. So they’re gonna try a few more, right? And all of a sudden the chef has more parameters, right?

Which is don’t use as much meat that chef has to get more creative. You can say at the front end, oh, that sounds like a lot of work. I’m never gonna do that. But the fact is that having these interesting parameters starts to push people’s boundaries and they have more joy in the discovery of these cool things.

And I think that is not talked about enough. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: I concur. I concur. It’s, and speaking of joy bill McKibbon McKibben’s pretty famous and. And has often written things that almost seem like in the depths of despair until he wrote, here Comes The Sun, a recent book, and he was talking about innovations and the thing about solar being small and localized on banisters and railings, and he speaks about China and how even though they’ve have been in very bad air quality situations.

But the fact of how they’re leapfrogging over fossil fuels and going to solar at such an extent that I read an article yesterday that they have had installed more solar over the last year or two than the United States has installed ever, collectively, total, and. It’s encouraging to when he’s upbeat about something with all his scientific knowledge and wrote this book, it’s super, super encouraging.

Have a, yeah, go ahead. 

Andrea Learned: Sorry. I have, speaking of Bill McKibbon, ’cause it’s the same thing. A lot of us, read somebody who’s been following this for so long and is so wise on that. Also, I lived in Vermont for seven years, so I and I, he was in some room that I was in once and I’m like, oh, he’s my best friend, but we follow each other on Blue Sky and whatnot.

But. I’m gonna say the same thing with regard to both these potential things like these solar panels and to leadership. He also is looking for joy. And so there was an article that he wrote on in his substack, I think in like late October about the Mamdani election in New York City, and we in Seattle also had a quote unquote socialist mayoral candidate.

And what. McKibbon said in the title is something like there’s, basically keep a look on these three mayors be, or, and candidates ’cause there’s something up and they’re having fun doing it. So he pointed to Joy in State City leadership and turns out right Mom, Donny just took it from there and everyone, you cannot deny if you’re watching that at all, that man has a lot of joy.

He also mentioned Michelle Wu in Boston, who’s been on my list to interview potentially too for a long time because. She was riding ecar her kids to school on e cargo bikes before she became mayor, so just like the awareness and I’m just gonna pause there and say that there’s a thing about being aware and actually walking and riding bikes and taking transit in your own city.

That changes your perspective. And so then the same thing is Seattle’s mayor Katie Wilson won. And so it was. Wilson, Mamdani and Woo, that McKibbon was highlighting. So he’s also highlighting people who are reflecting joy. So solar panels are joyful. And if people want, in mayors who have joy, more people wanna support ’em because they’re looking for joy, whether they realized it or not.

Given the choice of a candidate who’s got some joy going and somebody who’s just doing the same old stuff, we’re all going for the joy. And so I, I. I love that Bill McKibbon ’cause he does write about the depths of darkness. Like he’s been watching this for a long time. It can be pretty horrific to look at this.

And, but the thing is, those bubbles, they’re like little shoots, little bamboo shoots, right? So if it takes years underneath, in the ground for bamboo to start to develop and then they start shooting up in this way, I’m, I hope that I’m doing the same thing with the things that I bring up or help, emerge to the world.

Kim Allchurch Flick: Yeah, there’s a book called Water the Bamboo, which is about the psychology of that. The importance of Wait for what you don’t see. 

Andrea Learned: Exactly. It’s clear. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Don’t 

Andrea Learned: give up. Wait for what you won’t see. Would be a great name for this episode of your podcast. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Oh, that’s a beautiful, 

Andrea Learned: because and I think that we could go on and on about that because we haven’t seen it.

It’s almost like leadership, right? Almost like we haven’t seen a black woman president. We haven’t seen it. It’s developing. It’s there, it’ll come up, but it’s just we lose heart and we think nothing will ever change, and we think that X is the social norm and that this culture that we’re in now, which is hell, is it.

I call BS on that, other things are brewing. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Yes. And Jane Jane Goodall. Who I got to hear before she passed away, but in the same year she was in Oregon last year, said regimes end. And she was talking about a lot of other things as well, and talking about somebody who still had joy, even though with some pain, with all the things that she went through with diseases.

And yet she has created so much joy in others. And I think I find inspiration too, from. Organizations that can, are heavy hitters, they can swing big. And when I feel small, I look and say, oh, I can help support them. Like Oregon has, Oregon Business for Climate, an organization that rallies businesses and the voices to take to legislation and policy makers things of that nature that really, really help.

I also think. We’ve gotta give ourselves some grace where I grew up in England as a kid in the countryside where everything was pastures and these walls covered in moss and a occasional tree here and there in little streams, and it looked beautiful. And that’s what I remember until I also have been learning about how forested.

The whole island of Great Britain used to be and how they’re really hurting in terms of their agriculture and their climate. It’s hurting a lot. And I read a book called Land Healer by Jake Fiennes, and he talks about that. He talks about people see beauty differently and now we’re trying to reverse it.

And one example is the KNEPP farm, K-N-E-P-P. That was not making any money, I think 20, 25 years ago. And Isabella Tree, who wrote the book, wilding and her husband decided to stop farming and reclaim and regenerate that land. And they did such a beautiful job of it. And that book is my joy. I’ve listened to it, I’ve read it twice and.

They have created now a place where people can go and stay and eat from the land. 

That is so beautifully regenerated. The soil health is back, and when you look at a pasture and particularly look at farms, even in Oregon, sometimes at the wrong time of year, you can drive down a back road in the agriculture country and you’re driving through dust because somebody’s telling soil health matters.

That book Land Healer and the net wilding farm and the film, biggest little farm, things that of that nature are showing how it doesn’t take that much to do some real good. And when we can get back to soil health and the native tribal people know this. Soil health is everything. It’s human health, it’s animal health, it’s wisdom.

And I love that people are looking at that and trying to turn things around. 

Andrea Learned: I agree, and I think to your point, you had mentioned this idea of swinging big, supporting the communities, the organizations, the, I think part of the reason that I want more people to be more visible with whatever influence they’ve got is that it’s almost like, oh, I didn’t know you too.

Were on this bandwagon and we can start to form these mini collectives. I think a lot more of us could swing a lot bigger if we were aware. That there were more people out there that wanted to combine efforts, even if it was just like a massive, like talking about something on some social media channel or something.

I think this idea of swinging big, bigger than we ever thought we could, and being involved in these organizations like that, Oregon Businesses for Climate that you mentioned and stuff like that. And from the storytelling perspective and from the podcast perspective and from what will get told.

We don’t wanna hear the same old stories about, how boring are the stories about the corporations that did this or that? Or even the climate tech companies, like they got another funding round. Who cares? It’s these. Stories of the little guy or gal, right? Swinging big or figuring out a way to circulate their community to swing big.

If you look at Minneapolis and resisting the ice stuff, like it’s these moms and dads and ki like just coming together at a very ad hoc level and doing these amazing things and we all, all over the country are all over the world, are riveted by what’s happening in Minneapolis community right now.

They’re swinging so big with the amazing community and love that they’re reflecting. And I think that there, that’s there for a lot of things. It could be transportation, it could be food systems, it could be cities, affordable housing, whatever your thing is. And that’s one of the reasons that social media is so great.

Like you can a monitor, you can just take a look at social media, even if you don’t use it much yourself. Who are the people that are, that you can sense a little bit of a hint of swinging bigger, follow them and support them and amplify them. That starts to, we can get more big swings happening.

Kim Allchurch Flick: Oh, absolutely. I love being a backstage person that’s helping build the set for somebody else to shine, or at least being in an audience doing the standing ovation. They feel good to continue on. 

Andrea Learned: Yes, 

Kim Allchurch Flick: we all have a place in a space, even if we’re not on stage. 

I love that. How can people reach you and.

And learn from you and work with you? 

Andrea Learned: I am very active on Blue Sky, which some people may not really be that familiar with it. It’s basically something that came. It’s the same sort of people that used to be on Twitter. It’s very there’s not, it’s not just about sharing pictures or whatever. It’s very much about links and resources.

People that just, read too much probably and listen to too many podcasts. We’re sharing resources and things like that, and I’m on there a lot. The other tip I will give to other people who are listening to this, there are a lot of climate media on there, a lot of journalists in the climate space, and it’s really fun to follow them as the human beings that they are.

So few of them are with. Established publications anymore. So they all have their own newsletters, et cetera, and it’s a really fun place to be. So I’m really on very active on Blue Sky. I’m on LinkedIn and just getting less and less active because I’m not. I’m not feeling the joy there as much.

I have a newsletter. It’s currently on Substack. I may be migrating it, migrating that, but I’ll keep people posted. But I’m, what I’m trying to do with that newsletter is some audio posts. In the future, there may be some interviews, and as you mentioned way early on, I am just about to try and launch my new podcast name and fame with Andrea Lerned.

That’s it’s a. It’s a big thing to do and I’m doing it independently, so I’m hoping to get that launched pretty soon. But you really get to know me by following me on Blue Sky. And the other thing is that you, I’ve I think on LinkedIn or anyway, I have a link tree from my, you can find my site, AndreaLearned.com.

But that need is in need of an update. But I. Get interviewed by people a lot. So I have a link tree and I believe I link to it from my blue sky. I should check that right now. But you can go to the link tree in like recent podcasts that I’ve been on. I’ll put a link in there. So that’s a way, and I will share those on Blue Sky whenever that’s on there.

So yeah, you can find me on Substack, you can find me on Blue Sky, you can find me on LinkedIn if you have questions, you can just, message me on LinkedIn and I can point you to certain directions. But I’m out there and hoping to refine easier ways to find me in one spot. But I’m out there.

Kim Allchurch Flick: Yes. And we found each other because you’re out there, which is terrific. And is it at Andrea Lerned on Blue Sky? 

Andrea Learned: Yeah. If you go to Blue Sky, Andrea Learned, it’ll just come up. I don’t believe I’ve got any competition for that. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: And for listeners, we’ll put everything in the show notes as well.

Yeah. 

Andrea Learned: Great. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: And what makes you optimistic? 

Andrea Learned: I’m somebody who is fueled by joy, so what makes me optimistic are these little moments. So a couple of things. One, I am, watching these protests and kind of the horrors that are happening, I just took so much from. The inflatable frogs in Portland, it’s joy, right?

The I, the joy is influential and fear is irrelevant. And so what Portland showed us, and I lived in Portland for 10 years. I love that place. I will never like it’s in my blood. So when they became famous for the inflatable frogs, it was incredible. And then I will say something like Bad Bunny’s halftime show.

You right. These, the storytelling that he did, he was not yelling at the other side. He was just telling a story about how great, a real story of humans and how much buzz that did. It’s these. Again, these are these like smaller stories and I guess bad bunny is a big story, but it’s these moments where you are seeing, and I just am gonna keep saying it, joy as the influence and fear as the irrelevance and I think quote unquote other side is starting to see that the irrelevance of fear is not gonna get ’em everything they want.

And the joy side is on the up and up and there’s a great op-ed in the New York Times today by Will McGrath. And so if you could put that in the show notes, it would be amazing. And he goes into detail on how all these families in Minneapolis are helping so many immigrant families get their kids to school and try and stay safe and all of this and driving these minivans, and whatever.

It’s just lovely. Op-ed and I often mention this in a podcast. He mentions it too, and I don’t know the guy, but we have, we’re Kindred. He mentions a band called Idles, I-D-L-E-S, that is a post-punk band out of Bristol uk. They had an album called Joy as an Act of Resistance, and that’s the tattoo that I got on my arm.

This is the first tattoo I’ve ever had. Joy as an act of resistance. And so his whole article is, and he talks about a song on that album, Danny Delco, which is about an immigrant story and. He’s talking about all these moments of joy and how these families in their minivans are rising up and I am just reading it going, oh my, like this is it.

So these little stories make me optimistic, which is one of the reasons I stay alert and reading publications and staying on blue sky when I could just sign off and say, forget it. These little things bubble up. These are the same things that I wanna help bubble up with my work because it’s there.

These little things bubble up and that’s how I stay optimistic. ’cause they exist and they’re not going anywhere and the fear won’t. Fear won’t beat us down. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: I love that. And we’re one day into the year of the fire horse, which this is an evergreen podcast. Everything we’ve said today is relevant into the future, but I do wanna mark that it is February, 2026 as well.

And what a, what an interesting conversation that we have had. I feel joy because of this, and. I’ll put a lot into the show notes. Great. I’d like to ask you if you have anything more to add, and then I’ll ask you the final question. 

Andrea Learned: Do I have anything to add? I think if it didn’t become clear in our conversation, I would love for everyone who’s listening to this to really step back and think about what their key joys are, what their key values are, and if they’re, they’ve been in any way.

Hiding them or not talking about them much, that they choose to bring them forward a little bit in their life. And if that influences one or two people and maybe just your next door neighbor. That’s huge power. And so I, I just want people to reflect back on if they’ve been holding back on their own joys and their own values in any situation.

And I think ideally, since I work a lot with leaders and influence at a leader level, I really would love for people to like, identify that and figure out ways that they can maybe reflect that or share that or be a little bit more visible with that in their professional space. I think that’s it.

Kim Allchurch Flick: And I think what we can all do is share your information and sometimes ask open-ended questions of some leaders. Say, Hey, this is on my mind. I heard this podcast with Andrea Learned who. Who mentioned some things, what do you think? Would you engage as well? Yeah. And see if we can make this flow?

Andrea Learned: The other thing I forgot to mention is that , I’m so become kind of media and commentary and things like that are my thing. But I do, if people are. Called and get the sense that they might wanna have a conversation with me. I do our, hourly advising or just if you want a cheerleading call for an hour, I am available for that, especially for leaders because I want to help you tap this and move it along.

And that is through this app called intro.co. And I’ll give you a link to that too. So I do all this media stuff. I interview people on podcasts and occasionally I still, if people ask for it and feel like they could get something out of talking with me. And most people do because they get a little dose of energy and kind of a realization that there’s something more they could be doing.

So that is something I would love to help with. So I am available for that. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: I love that mine shifts toward the positive and joy can make a big difference. So if you could have dinner with anyone. Up to three people living or deceased, who would they be and why Doesn’t have to be three. It could be one, it could be two.

Andrea Learned: It’s so funny because it’s like how the three people that I would want at dinner, it would be a strange I’m not sure how they would all connect except if I really thought about it and it would, it was gonna be joy and love I guess they would all connect no matter what.

But I will say that that band that I mentioned idols I, the lead singer of that band, Joe Talbot. Would be somebody that I would love to be sitting at a dinner with because he just exudes joy and has a real social justice angle to everything he does. Another piece person would probably be who I’m so bad at this because I just, I would like to interview or I would like to have dinner with somebody who.

First came, came up with the electric bike, I would like to talk with somebody about that. I, and then I also, I will say, one more that I know is the person who was behind the advocacy campaign. I don’t know if you remembered or not, that they really the angle was, let’s stick it to the man by not smoking.

So the way that smoking, became less cool, if you will. Was, let’s figure out how to get young people involved in saying, I’m not gonna die just ’cause big tobacco. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Excuse me, 

Andrea Learned: I’m not gonna die just because big tobacco wants me to smoke cigarettes. And so I think there’s something I would like to talk with the person who is probably dead by now who activated that or made that happen.

And again, it could be the leader of it or not, right? But who made that campaign happen? Because I think with regard to all the stuff that I do too, a lot of this is figuring out ways to stick it to the man or stick it to a culture. So we stick it to culture by choosing to eat less meat. We stick it to culture by choosing to drive and buy fewer fuel, fossil fuel vehicles, right?

We stick it to culture, and so I want to get more educated and find more joy and kind of information sources about how we stick it to the man, which is our culture of awfulness by simplifying and analoging our life. If you will. Whoever can help me put together that dinner table, I would love it.

So Joe Talbot of idols, whoever came up with the e-bike and whoever was behind the scenes of the stopping smoking, sticks it to the man, I want that at my dinner table.

Kim Allchurch Flick: I love that. And there are still ways that we can stick it to the man on many levels and build. Build good businesses by changing our purchase habits and our thought processes and our habits. It’s such a great conversation. We could continue talking for a very long time. I have enjoyed this so much.

Everyone, thank you for being here. This is Kim Allchurch Flick. Delighted, thank you. Delighted to be able to share this with the world. 

Andrea Learned: Thank you so much, Kim. I really enjoyed the interview and I I hope that this conversation did start some joy for any of your listeners and gonna get them thinking about their own, how they’re gonna be more visible with their values and their leadership.

So thank you so much for inviting me to do this. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Small as mighty little steps can make big journeys. Thanks so much. Signing off.