How to Stand for the America Your Business Needs with Camilla Taylor of the American Sustainable Business Network (ASBN)

Kim Allchurch Flick: Hello everyone. Welcome to the podcast. This is Kim Allchurch Flick, and I am so happy to be talking with Camilla Taylor, who is the executive director of the American Sustainable Business Network. She’s globally renowned leader, focused on changing economic systems into stakeholder driven economies.

Over the years, she has held positions at B Lab Global. Is the owner of B, or which is the owner of B Corps certification where she has respons, has been responsible for their impact operations, as well as Holland FinTech and FinTech era, a network of sustainable European FinTech companies working together toward the democratization of financial services in the developed and underdeveloped global economies.

Camilla’s passion is in systems change through empowering the collective voice of business to influence regulatory change. The title of our today Together is How to Stand for the America Your Business Needs. Wow. That is an impressive bio. 

Camilla Taylor: Oh, thank you. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: I’m so happy that you’re here and as a fairly new member of the ASBN.

I’m doubly delighted, so welcome. 

Camilla Taylor: Oh it’s wonderful to have you. I think every voice in this moment, I know we all, I’ll speak for myself, feel so disenfranchised right now and powerless. And so really leaning into community and places of. Collective action that celebrate the really, the power and influence that we all have is particularly important at this moment, I would say.

It is a, an honor right back at you, having you here. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Oh, thank you so much. What along the way through all of these. Wonderful things in your bio, in this broad and deep experience that you’ve had, what have been your inspirations and the values that have led you through your journey? And to this point, an ASBN.

Camilla Taylor: Yeah, so it really starts back in, in as most good stories do back in the day. I am the product of a family business and my dad, when I was little girl, he was the CEO and president of our family business that was founded by my great-grandfather. Almost a hundred years ago in Maryland.

Kim Allchurch Flick: Wow. 

Camilla Taylor: And this family business has really been the center in nurturing ability of my entire family. And I saw as a little girl, my father really being a leader in not only our family and we’ve huge family so many children. But really the community as a business leader, and he felt that weight and he didn’t hide that weight from his children.

That, that responsibility that you get inherently as a business owner and it’s so much pride and respect for him in doing this. And it’s something I think every. One should have the opportunity to do my, great grandfather not only in starting this business, but he started a small trust fund for his descendants that helps pay for our education.

And so when I think of what this business has created, it’s not huge by any means. It’s not a national, known, known business. It’s a small company in Maryland. It is produced from this business, this compute community, family centric business has come teachers and lawyers and nurses and that have also gotten support from education from this.

And I think that this is, I have no interest in going into the family business. It sits in in real estate, which is not that particularly interesting to me. But the way that I do service to my family and this gift that was given to me is by trying to ensure that all others have the ability to start businesses, to run businesses and run them in a way that is rooted in community.

And so working constantly in service of that. So a lot around accessibility, seeing how there are ways of moving. The new economy really spoke to me a decade or two ago and moving in that direction has always really been my northern light and just a constant curiosity that we can do things better and how can we do things better and how can we challenge what is better at this moment to drive forward and just this constant.

Curiosity and how to expand. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Wow. And you spent time in B Lab and how was that how did that, it 

Camilla Taylor: did 

Kim Allchurch Flick: shape your worldview and 

Camilla Taylor: It was phenomenal. So I worked at B Lab Global, which is the overarching entity where the standards sit, as well as the global impact management and really. They I was fortunate enough to be brought on to really assess for the first time in a very intentional way, what is the impact of B Corp certification in policy, in climate, in growth, in economic terms, and really be able to assess that.

I had the pleasure of working under Bart Houlahan as well as working really closely with Andrew. And I think what I. That was incredible and an incredible place to work and I’m very honored that ASBN, we work very, very closely with B Lab still, and that is very much a home for me. And what I saw there and what I really have carried with me is that same sense of.

We can do it better. There’s a lot of humility, a lot of, ’cause I think for growth, you need to be able to hold a mirror up and the development of the new standards came from that reflection.

Kim Allchurch Flick: Sure. 

Camilla Taylor: I learned how to tackle really, really hard. Questions that don’t have a right answer to them.

And this is something that I, mission-driven leaders, we experience this a lot where there’s just no right answer. And in the B Corp community, I can think about the questions that I was involved with. Around do we allow multinationals in. Do we, what is the role and the theory of change for small businesses in systems change?

How do you still look at, you still have to have a business model, and how do you balance the necessities of a business model with the necessities of an impact model? And that’s where I sat. I sat at that. 

At that fulcrum and seeing people move through that. But the, what I loved about B Lab, and I love about ASBN ’cause we do this as well, and what I was able to really carry over is we talk with business leaders all day.

Business leaders have to make payroll. Business leaders have to worry about their cost and their overhead and being able to speak in that language. Especially larger business leaders, they work on a quarterly cadence. That’s what their, that’s what their shareholders, they want a quarterly report.

Also you didn’t ask, but if I could change one thing in the sustainable business community, it would be that I would change reporting to an annual basis and not quarterly. Also it 

Kim Allchurch Flick: would be, that would be a relief to many, I think. 

Camilla Taylor: And it would save CEOs some board meetings, which like, there are a lot to get together.

So I just feel like that would be, that would that, I think that would. The case for sustainability wouldn’t be such an uphill battle if we could work on that timing and that cadence. But speaking in that way because you have to, a business has to exist. I used to always tell people and I still do today ’cause they’d be like, oh, sustain, you don’t want businesses to succeed.

You just want them to be non-profits. And I’d be like, no, my friend. I, in fact, am your best friend because I need you to financially succeed because I need you to prove the business case that this is better business. And we learned that in COVID. We pulled the data from that. So I, in fact, I love business.

I think it’s a structure that is going nowhere. This capitalist structure we live in. I just think we can do it better. Yes. And that was something at Blab of constantly speaking those two languages is something I think it’s more people should do and more people are doing. Was definitely a big takeaway.

Kim Allchurch Flick: Indeed. And as you were speaking, I was thinking about, because I live in Oregon. Yeah. Have worked with a small business development center and get a lot of data. And a state like Oregon has. Some really big businesses, heavy hitters like Nike and Intel that employ a lot of people and create a lot of money.

But collectively, it’s the small businesses that are like the economic engine of the state, including some of the biggest exports and pretty heavy importers as well. And every state has their own, and it’s that collectiveness of small business. And also when a business fails, just because they’re small doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt and and the whole idea of profit as being a value, it, I think, can really mean something because profit can move things forward. It can move growth, it can pay people, it can pay people more. So I love what you were saying about that. And as you look at the communities and a worldview and the good things like that, what do you see as problems to be solved and how did you transition from B Lab to A SBN?

Camilla Taylor: Ooh. That’s a very easy question to answer right now. What problems need to be solved? There are a number of them, I would say. So I’ll tell you how we are breaking it down at a SB on this coming year in terms of the problems that need to be solved. I will also preface by saying we are a non-partisan organization.

The world is non nonpartisan at this moment, but we are nonpartisan. So the largest issues, and I’m really gonna focus on small businesses because in, in this economy, with the stock market acting as it is, the problems of big businesses and the problems of small businesses have never been farther apart.

They’re not experiencing the same realities. So I’m gonna sit with small businesses for a moment. The first is security and safety. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Yes. 

Camilla Taylor: That’s being experienced and that I think, I would argue is the foundation of the other two. And for safety and security, this goes from what we are seeing in communities with ice.

And a business. Have their employees come in, can deliveries be made? Will customers come in? What’s happening? Security of that nature. Also, when I say security, predictability and security within, are the cost of my goods going to increase 400% next week because I haven’t forecasted that and I can’t expect that.

So also security within. How they’re able to forecast and move forward within the world is not there. If you are, let’s say a small company that works with energy costs and that works with clean energy, do you have an AI data center coming? Do you know what? Affordability you don’t? And so small businesses, they run on such slim margins.

They need security of physical self, but also financial security and predictability. Businesses thrive when things are boring. They do not thrive in turbulence. So the foundation is affordability. Next affordability. Oh, sorry. So first is security, then affordability. The cost. Of, existing America is not a country where you can afford to run a, to start a business for sure.

Right now, unless you have some sort of external help, you can’t afford it. And the risk of, once again, even if you’re able to find startup money right now, goes back to security. You can’t forecast anything. You can’t look at costs. You look around your community. Can you afford to hire people at a living wage?

That’s a pro. I, it’s hard right now if you’re a small business. That’s a hard question. But then can you also run operations on such a skeleton staff that you can’t scale, that doesn’t make ownership of a business, running a business seem appealing. So security, affordability. And then the third is opportunity.

And this really goes into, support and ability that, and credits, tax credits that you get from starting a business and the opportunities that you have to be able to rent and expand opportunity, access to information, access to supplies, incentives from communities to open businesses and start, and so those.

Those for us are really the three pillars of what businesses need right now and need to be fixed. And they have nothing to do with politics. We need to have a country where you can afford a business where you feel safe and where you have the American dream. That’s what our country was founded on, was this dream of opportunity.

And we need to fight for those back. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Oh indeed. And how what is your role like in A SBN and how do you see A SBN in the community and what’s looking for people? 

Camilla Taylor: So there’s always one, one of the reasons I love business, not just because I’m the daughter of a business owner, but one of the things I love about business is it is an institution in America that regardless.

I’m based in Houston, Texas. If you’re a business owner, you’re respected. If you are in Brooklyn, in the city, if you’re a business owner, you’re respected there. There is something about the institution of business that speaks to a really core fiber within American culture, and so what we do is we look at policy and legislation.

That are good for a just economy that lead us on that path one step closer, or which we’re doing much more of now. Those that, that shove us way back and we take out the politics. And we put in a business case for it, and we put in a business case, we put in a name and we put in a face. And we have amassed over the past 17 years of our existence, quite a bit of political capital.

That politicians know us. They know we come to, they know that we are smart. They know that we’re focused. We are action oriented. We do not give into greenwashing and they’ll say, Hey, we’re trying to build this piece of legislation. Can you build the business case for it? And we’re able to move forward in a lot of spaces and open up the door for collaborators behind us who might be politicized and who might have.

Especially in this moment, certain attitudes placed on them and they’re not able to enter the rooms that we can enter. And that’s what A SBN does. We, yeah. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Okay. 

Camilla Taylor: We are, we hold the line, we are the front line with a business case that whatever side of the aisle on, you understand, we work with businesses to tell their story.

So I think a good example is like when the tariffs were coming. The first one, right? And the media was like these tariff some media, it’s like these tariffs are gonna be great for business. And that’s what it was being sold to America as. This is so great for business. And we went out and we spoke to our community and we said, Hey, how good affecting your business?

And they’re able to say. I’m not gonna argue with an economist. I’m not, but I know I can’t afford my business right now. And getting that story to the media, getting that story to the policy makers. ’cause that’s the story of America. We are the majority. And so once we can build these robust channels and connections, we become the pro business voice.

And that’s what ASBN does is we are the business voice. On the hill and continuing to grow that. So we, even, the word sustainability is because we work towards a just economy. We don’t represent every business. You have to have shared values. But we are the business voice ’cause we are multi-generational thinking and legislators and policy makers know that.

And so we continue to push forward with that case. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: I love that so much. And. Collective voice has power. And it goes back to what I was saying before. Sometimes I feel so small 

That I couldn’t do anything by myself to ever reach a legislator. 

Camilla Taylor: Yeah. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: But by supporting SBN and other heavy hitters, it can make a difference.

And it strikes me that a ASBN’s business cases can be over a variety of topics and sectors as well, and. The safety issue, but also environmental issues and issues of employment. I think, I know the fair wage is a question because it’s not the same across the nation because cost of living have so much variability.

And what do you see as obstacles and challenges that I know unique now, perhaps, but also some that are rather consistent. 

Camilla Taylor: Yeah, I think the, for obstacles and challenges it really comes down to well, funding. If you have a lobbyist while we represent the majority and we work for the seven tech companies that are controlling the stock market at this moment are paying a lot for lobbies, and we lobbyists and we are not political.

We even in some of our works and our regenerative agriculture work, that is a majority very conservative constituency, but they’re die hard fighting for. Regenerative practices because that’s really smart farming and and we really pride ourselves on being a space that’s so issue focused. So it’s this point of really building up these connections and being able to speak with people ’cause you believe in something so core that maybe in otherwise you don’t have the same topics in mind.

I think what we’re fighting now, and we have always fought this, but what has really, really. Just come to, to a new fever pitch is misinformation. Oh, 

Kim Allchurch Flick: goodness. Yes. 

Camilla Taylor: Yeah. I, let’s just go back to the tariffs for a moment. They’re so good for business. This is a American manufacturing is coming back.

None of that was true, but it. Right now there’s an odd thing happening where truth and perception have kind of inverse values to them as they do in normal times, right? Perception is far more important than truth. And so it, and it’s that and what is also a very well documented strategy of the current administration that we struggle with as a small nonprofit is the flooding the zone. There’s so much, there’s so much, and I. I’m a yes girl. I’m a like, we’ll fight the fights because what we do is very personal to me, and it’s very important to me that this succeeds and, but we can’t pick every fight right now. And that is really hard. It’s really hard for people that this work is their life and having to say, I think I Ira is going and we can’t.

We can’t stop that. That’s really hard. And so winning right now looks very differently than it has in past administrations. It’s another challenge, just staying motivated, staying feeling, not alone feeling. ‘Cause sometimes right now winning is the work. Fighting is the win. And waking up every day and doing that, and still finding some way of joy and connection with similar people that’s a win in a way that, that just used to be your day.

And now that might need to be the w that day, so yeah, tackling the misinformation and just tackling just how. Full on that destruction is right now. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: And somebody had a quote that said they thought that running a strong business is a form of resistance, and so to have. A SBN out there is champions for that.

Yeah. And others, s BDCs are another that are really trying to help businesses at least get off the ground and thrive. Yeah. And have the tools to do so as a form of resistance and 

That helps me get through a little bit. But you also, tariffs have been a blindside and when they shift in a day from say, 15% to 50.

That’s a real story. 

It makes it difficult. And then the people are trying to say should I sell in Europe instead and all this time to make decisions in the brain space. That used to be for the part that you said that businesses thrive when things are boring. 

It hasn’t been boring.

We do, it’s been very disruptive. 

Camilla Taylor: Yeah. And I do, I we, this past. This past week we created a joint letter to Congress. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Oh no. 

Camilla Taylor: That we coordinated and led around Minneapolis and demanding the business community demands that ICE needs to be pulled. The national business community is demanding that ICE needs to be pulled back.

And there needs to be accountability in place that is required by law, by all federal agencies. And the rule of law needs to take precedent in leading and structuring what any immigration policy looks like. And so we put that together early this week. We have 30 founding signatories from organization.

So B Lab is one fair trade, a number of impact investing, state agencies, local networks, about 40 that have all come together to be, have it be our joint statement. And then we all go to our businesses and are speaking to, to our members and our networks to sign on. And I have been saying. I found myself as I’m talking to people ’cause people are scared and rightfully so, really scared about saying, I don’t know if I can sign, I’m gonna lose my 5 0 1 C3 status, or if I’m a business owner, what if I get doxed and.

All these things and it really 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Real fears. Yeah, 

Camilla Taylor: real fear and they’re valid. And I run an advocacy organization, so I’m, I’ve made my choice. But I hold no one. I have no judgment for anyone that is not willing to make the choice that I have made. I fully respect the decisions everyone makes, but it dawned on me as I’m having all these conversations with really brave leaders who I deeply respect and look up to.

I think owning a business now is political in and of itself. Owning a business is a political act right now, you. You cannot separate yourself, especially if you are willing to lean in and own the responsibility that comes with the leadership of owning a business and what that means in your community.

You’re political. I don’t like, you’re, what you stand for or doesn’t stand for is being translated by customers. And so I, I don’t know if we have the luxury anymore to. To fly under the radar because this time is gonna pass. This time is going to pass. I’m saying that as much to myself as I am to you.

That’s gotta become my motto. Recently this is gonna pass too. And your community and the people around you are gonna remember what decisions were made. And I, as a mom I look at my kids and I’m just like, ah. This is gonna be a moment in the history books. And when they say, mom, what did you do?

I can tell them with honesty that I fought, that I stood up. And there is gonna be a moment where you can’t be like, oh, I had no idea. No you’re gonna have to say that. And so I think owning a business, whether you like it or not, is leadership. And that is political right now. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: It is. And it’s, I’m you said that, ’cause I’m also thinking of small businesses that closed on Friday and one put a sign in the window and put it out in his newsletter and I replied back and I just said thank you. And I know the owner and he wrote back and he said the response has been overwhelmingly positive. And that hurts small business, little retail, but there’s opportunities that we’re seeing for that is happening.

And you brought up something that I was gonna ask you a question about and led into it. Like collaborations with other organizations like B Lab and some of the others, what are some of those collaborations like, and what are some of the discussions that are happening about who, who takes the lead on one thing?

When do you pass a baton? When do you go together as signatories? What does it look like? 

Camilla Taylor: Yeah. I, as it comes to collaboration, that first you gotta. In this moment in time, you have to collaborate. And I think something that I always chuckle about is and this is holding a mirror up to the sector and the ecosystem that I love and hold so dearly.

We are so bad at having 12 people do the same thing. We are, we’re really, we’re not great, especially when there are a finite amount of resources in the nonprofit world. We are not great at coordinating that. And so coordination is key and I think where it starts and something that, that was such a gift coming from B Lab to moving into A SBN is.

We all need to know our lane and be in our lane and be really clear about it. Like ASBN, we do advocacy. So I will have, we will have businesses come and say, oh, do you do work on how I can become a better business, like my sustainable practices? And I’ll be like, no. I don’t but I know what do you, are you want like a consultant thing?

Do you want a community more of a and work and build that out and pass. People pass people along to where they go. And I think that when I see organizations that really stay in their lane is when they do the best, is when they’re like, this is my role and it is so important and I’m gonna get so good at it so that I can then help others to pass that on so they can be really good at their role.

And so what. What the ecosystem looks like now from where I sit, is there are a lot of different levers and aides for sustainable business. So you have certification and performance focused ones.

And I do always encourage businesses when I get to work with them about asking like. Why what are you looking for?

Because there are a ton of certifications and what, like what are you trying to achieve? Because the certification in and of its self can be out there flow. You need to know is it because you want your performance and your operations to be effective? Are you expecting a customer facing kind of idea?

It’s really figuring that out. And then looking. The financial side, CDFIs. Impact investors. The whole gamut over there, which is also within our ecosystem, but I had the pleasure of sitting in that world from the foundation side for some time. And looking at those levers and I think just understanding who is existing around and then people like you that are there to individually work with businesses and help them design and that consultancy side.

But just so important. ’cause this is mad. I cannot imagine. Could you imagine? You probably can ’cause this is what you do, but we having a business just be like, huh, I think there’s a better way to do this. But I still need to have a really good running business. What do you even do? Where do you, like, where do you the businesses that we work at, with at ASBN are on the tail end of that journey looking for systems change and advocacy. Like you’re already like really comfortable and in with your identity as a business that focuses on sustainability and what you do, and we have a lot of collaboration in the ecosystem, which I’m very proud to take a part of, mainly ’cause I also love the people that do this work, so I get to talk with my friends.

And sharing best practices is very important. Understanding like what we are seeing in the business world with the stock market doing great and small businesses not. And so sharing what we’re seeing, what we’re experiencing, and. At the same time respecting our various communities and what the needs of them are.

But there, I would say within the sustainability community and ecosystem, there is a high amount of. Collaboration. And so for example, this sign on we’re doing on ice. A SBN is coordinating it, we’re leading it. I had the honor of authoring much of it, but it still is, you’re getting input into it and you are, you’re saying, does this feel right from this angle?

And creating joint projects and moments that speak to all those different levers is challenging. But I think it’s the only way. I truly, we are the majority, right? We are the majority. So anything we can do to capture that, do it. I always tell people, I’m like, I’m fine if you don’t put my logo on something I like, let’s just do it.

And I think as long as you’re respected and known for that collaboration, it goes really far. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: I love that you’re inspiring me a whole bunch. What can people do for themselves once they’ve gotten some help from somebody, whoever it might be? What are some things they can take initiative on, or if they had, or if they’re not even that far?

How do they know to find A SBN? Like how would they even know to search and say, I need this help. I’m not sure where. 

Camilla Taylor: Yeah. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Okay. What would be, and that, I apologize, that was two questions in one. No, but it was my thought process thinking, yeah, somebody’s out there, they’ve got the initiative and they’re lost in the largeness of.

The possibilities. 

Camilla Taylor: Yeah. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: And they don’t know where to look. 

Camilla Taylor: Okay. And this is one of my favorite things because I, the idea for people of I’m gonna communicate with the government sounds so huge and scary. It’s not. It’s really not. So there, there are two things that you can do. One, I recommend you get a nice little cup of tea and you go to asbn network.org.

We have sign-ons. We have contact your representative. Put on your favorite power music, get a nice little cup of tea, and you go through and there are we’ve platforms in place where you just put in your zip code. We’ll find your rep and you can shoot off. I do not accept ice. I do not accept what you are doing to my community.

I do not accept. You’re using my taxes for, I do not accept how you are representing my community on the hill. I do not accept, clean water. Requirement, fix that. You can go through and really be able to use your voice in that moment. Then the other thing that you can do, and we’re building this out for the midterm, this is a little teaser into the midterm.

If you’re a business, you’re a center of community and one, we have midterms coming up. Holy cow. What an opportunity. We are building toolkits, how tos, and we will do the backend work for you of host an elected official. Or host. What a great idea. A idea. Yes. And when I tell you this is easy, if you have a candidate elected officials come out, host them, we’ll help you.

We’re right. We got the email templates. We will send those to get someone to come to your business. Get the community, the other business owners, ask five sec. Ask your friends to come. And talk with this candidate, give you talking points on affordability, security, and opportunity. And you say, what are you doing?

And this is my lived experience, and how are you going to this? And listen to what they’re saying. And they weren’t for you. They work for you. You make them say what their plan is and then decide if that’s who you want representing your community. And so I think that’s a really powerful way. And in doing that, you’re also connecting with other business leaders saying you’re not alone.

This is a problem that we have too. And so I think, and we at ASBN have. A quarterly amplifiers meeting, and this goes back to the first point where grab your tea.

So we have quarterly, I love doing these. They’re an hour and you come and as you said previously, A SPM, we work in a lot of different areas, we tackle a lot of different parts that, that we have identified will have the largest impact on promoting, adjust, and regenerative economy and all of our. Actions that you can take. So sign on letter to the Congress, we give you the download of, Hey, like clean water. That’s, that was decimated very recently.

But there’s still a chance to voice your opinion about Hey, I need clean water and accessibility to water within my community. And we give you a download. This is where things are going right now. This is how we fought. This is how your voice is meeting. And while we do that. We’re also feeding you all the synod, so you could be like, yeah, I do wanna talk about this.

Or maybe it’s something really specific and it doesn’t speak to you as much, and then you could just be like, oh, but that’s great to know that’s what’s happening in the indigenous community and that’s how DEI is impacting X, Y, and Z. And now I know and I’m informed about what’s actually happening, not the news side, if of what’s going on. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: And it also strikes me that you’re creating a web and some of these issues standalone, but not really because they’re also connected to something else and something else. And any disparity is usually connected to resources like, 

Camilla Taylor: yeah, 

Kim Allchurch Flick: lack of water, lack of a variety of things.

And each one of those. It may not directly impact what you might want, but it indirectly impacts a lot and when it impacts indirectly, but it impacts our communities, that’s better for everybody. So it’s like a high tide that lifts all the boats. Yeah. If we’re looking at a lot of those different issues saying, I may not fully appreciate that I would personally be impacted by this issue, but others are therefore.

It’s a really good idea to speak up on this one too. 

Camilla Taylor: Yeah. I, when you and we work through and write the letters for people that they send off an email to Congress, but when you start a letter to Congress with, I am a business owner in your district, that does something and people have to read those.

I think that’s also a really big misconception that I will spend my entire life. Fighting. I might get a t-shirt that says, people ha when you call and leave a, I like calling my congressman after hour because I like leaving a message because as an elder millennial, I don’t like speaking on the phone to people.

People have to listen to that. It is required. It is not. I hear all the time people are like, Ugh, shoot off an email. No one’s gonna read it. No, no, no. They’re required to. It goes into record. This really has an impact. And it’s something, especially with platforms locally use at A SBN, you can do it in between meetings.

If you have that reoccurring meeting that you don’t really listen to, jump on over and stand for your community. It’s really great and easy to do and people have to read them. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: And thank you for making that service to make it easy, because that also in itself is inspirational and a one-stop shop for a lot of that is super important.

I was gonna ask you, what’s your style in helping people, but I think you pre-answered some of that with that resource. And what is your style in helping people and also what makes you optimistic? 

Camilla Taylor: Yeah, I, I really like to empower people. I’m really I like a good combination of I’m happy to lead the charge.

I really I don’t have the same, I think things are too important to be afraid, and it’s not that I’m not afraid right now. I am I work in policy. I have a target in my back For a lot of the things that we stand for. Really do put a huge target on me, but I think it’s too important not to. To work.

So I’m very happy to lead by example, but empowering people. At the end of the day, if I, when whenever I get to talk to a business owner, particularly small business owner, I do have a soft spot in my heart. We work with the big guys too, but it’s the small one that really just, and hearing them say, I felt empowered and I didn’t feel like a victim for the first time in a long time.

My, my job is done. My, my job is done like that. It’s working in service of this community is it’s just an honor. It’s just an absolute honor. And I would say to your second question what keeps me op, what keeps me optimistic is also what keeps me terrified and working around the clock at this.

I truly believe anything is possible and for better and for worse, and that can be good. I was recently speaking with another kind of leader in the ecosystem and he was challenging myself and a group of other leaders to say, let’s imagine a world after this moment. That’s radically better.

We got in this moment because people imagined a world that was unimaginable.

We’re destroying democracy right now. Democracy is in threat. That was, didn’t seem possible, but someone dreamed it and they executed it. So let’s do that. But for good, let’s rebuild. The systems that we have in place that we took for granted, and let’s make them work for everyone.

So I think that’s possible. I think that’s possible to do it. I think if we can get enough people to care, if we can get enough businesses that are shielded from the politicization because they’re businesses to speak up, I think a lot is possible. And on the. But I think also losing democracy is possible, and I think losing the foundation of our country and what we have all reaped the benefits of to this point is also very possible.

So it keeps me radically optimistic, but it also scares me because there’s another side to it. It means we can’t, it just can’t give up. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Yes. I appreciate that too. And history teaches us that it doesn’t end well. And, but also Jane Goodall spoke in Portland just last year.

And one of the quotes besides all the work that she did and all her stories, one of her quotes was regimes.

And so people walked out with that, but we can’t really wait. We have to push it and 

Camilla Taylor: Yeah. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: You’re giving us the tools. To push and help the legislators because they’re hearing voices and they work for us. Yeah. I love these messages.

Camilla Taylor: I heard something at a gathering last weekend that really stuck with me and it was said in an ominous tone, but my overly optimistic self translated it into positive.

But they said, America is our problem. No one’s gonna come and fix it for us. This idea of oh, systems work, it’s just not true. America’s our problem. But I also, what I heard when I heard that was America’s still ours. I stopped there. I didn’t, I did the last part stopped there and it’s true.

America is ours. We have votes, we have rights. We are, if you are working in this moment, this is yours, that you are shaping by apathy or action. Either way, you are shaping it and I think that’s incredible.

Kim Allchurch Flick: That’s quotable and that’s amazing. I love that. And working together. What, is there anything else you’d like to add before we ask how people can reach you and have the final question? 

Camilla Taylor: Yeah. If someone is listening to your podcast and interacting with your company. I would just say thank you.

What they’ve decided to do is really, really hard. Running a business is hard and then adding another guardrail of, oh, and I’m gonna make the world a little bit better while I do it. That’s extraordinary. And I hope that they take a moment just to sit and think. Wow, what I’m doing is really incredible and feel that.

’cause I don’t think enough people do. So I would just say thank you for making that hard decision and executing 

Kim Allchurch Flick: well. Thank you. And how can you be reached? And I also wanna encourage everyone listening to become a member because I found ASBN to be dependable. Have a lot of foresight and for all the reasons you’ve just heard, why not support these efforts?

Camilla Taylor: Yeah, happy meet you. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, so I always encourage my team yells at me ’cause I give out my personal email a lot. ’cause I like speaking with people. People can always reach out to me personally, which is at Camilla@ASBNNetwork.org or our website, ASBNNetwork.org.

We’re all in this together and I welcome everyone. We have an equity model specifically because I wanna make sure that I am representing a community that is representative of America. It’s extremely important to us. All are welcome.

Kim Allchurch Flick: All are welcome. I love that. And it’s sincere and we need that to be real too. 

Camilla Taylor: Yeah. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Thank you. So the final question 

Camilla Taylor: Yeah. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Is if you could have dinner with anyone living or deceased up to a table of. Three individuals. 

Camilla Taylor: Yeah. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: So you’re a table of four. Who would they be and why? 

Camilla Taylor: Yes. So I was thinking about this while we were speaking.

All right. I would choose Michelle Obama. It would be a ladies dinner. I would like Michelle Obama. I would like, I love the Good Hang podcast, so Amy Pohler, because the idea of having dinner with her is absolutely fantastic. And my 102 year old grandma

I know, wow, she’s 102. I would, I think that would be a really good laugh. And I think my southern grandma would throw in some zingers. Great. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Wow. And what would be a favorite recipe you’d want for that? 

Camilla Taylor: Oh, good. Now we’re on the recipes. Excellent. Okay. I’d either do one of two things. I’d go down home cooking and Id make homemade fried chicken. Delicious. Or I try and be fancy and I’d make like a pa.

Yeah. What do you think that crowd would like? 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Michelle Obama has probably. Tasted and been exposed to almost every cuisine in the world on multiple times. And she might really appreciate, like sometimes there’s just comfort food that Yeah. Is so nice. Can’t speak for Michelle Obama. And, but your grandmother likes singers.

Is she adventurous, which she like, like pay. 

Camilla Taylor: Yeah, I think 

Kim Allchurch Flick: the fried chicken on the side or something. An okay 

Camilla Taylor: or something. Yeah. I think she would lean more towards the fried chicken. My, once again from the south. Grandma has an unsubstantiated by scientific evidence belief that olive oil in replace, in replacing butter is a character flaw in people that shows that they don’t have sound judgment.

So I, I might have to do fried chicken, I feel like Amy Pohler would just be down for whatever and there for a good laugh. But I feel like we could talk about what’s happening right now, just being a woman in this moment. And in the case of my grandma 70 years ago how that’s changed. I feel like we’d have some really good laughs.

That would happen. Share some great face cream techniques. Yeah, I think that would be really fun. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Well, enjoy your dinner. I think it’s gonna be wonderful. 

Camilla Taylor: Wait, what do you tell people? What’s your answer? 

Kim Allchurch Flick: You know, no one has asked me.

Camilla Taylor: Oh, 

Kim Allchurch Flick: but thank you. I think about it all the time. Jane Goodall is one because.

I love animals. I love what she did, but also she taught people that, and she was criticized for actually talking to like big oil companies. And looked like she was being nice and kind to them. But she said it does mean no good to keep them on an enemies list that she actually used to, she made more progress by.

Learning to negotiate with them through conversation and through seeing things that would benefit them as well. So I think there’s pearls of wisdom in the Jane Goodall story. 

Camilla Taylor: Yeah. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: My grandparents in England, or people that my grandmother lived to be 99, and, but all the men were long gone. But because there’s so much Victorian era they died early, but the Victorian era principles were.

You have to be polite and don’t tell stories. So there’s so many hidden secrets in the family that were n never told. I’d love to go back and talk to my Nan and maybe some older relatives and say, okay, what’s the real scoop about this? What happened? Because we found some things in archives, like we think My father may have been a spy.

He was very old. When I was born. He was 50 and he was in prison. Had written letters to Churchill and because they thought he was with a German spy. So there’s that story, but we know very little about it except there is the actual letter to Churchill. So I think my dad, Jane Goodall, and I almost think I’d like to go way back to any.

I’d like to go to a tribal community that really understood, like Robin Waki writes about, really understood land reciprocity, no extraction and how to live in that way where they kept the buffalo healthy because they knew in the buffalo kept him them healthy and they, there are tribal leaders here who talk about.

How, even though their land was taken, they look at land like a grocery store. They, it’s like walking up an aisle. You know where things are. You know when they flew me, when the harvest is, and to other people, it looked like they weren’t managing their land well.

I’d love to just sit and listen to the tribal wisdom about being human on land.

In a reciprocal fashion. 

Camilla Taylor: Yeah. See my other, I was thinking of Cleopatra. I find her fascinating and just how history has shaped the view of this influential leader, but always through a patriarchal lens. So to actually 

Kim Allchurch Flick: really 

Camilla Taylor: understand, but here’s my problem. If I’m also gonna have Michelle Obama and Amy Poer, we would just end up spending the whole dinner explaining to Cleopatra what a light bulb is, and I don’t, so it would have to be just a solo dinner with Cleopatra and it would have to be a very long dinner to , explain some of the things that she was experiencing before I could get to my questions that I would have for her.

But that’s 

Kim Allchurch Flick: gen generational differences for sure. 

Camilla Taylor: Yeah. Oh, and I’m also being reminded really quick back to your question about reaching us. We also do have social media. You can find American Sustainable Business Network on LinkedIn, on Facebook, on Instagram. And we use all those quite robustly.

’cause we know a lot of small businesses also use those platforms. And we wanna make sure that we’re easy to find. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Oh, thank you so much. Thank you. And everyone, this will be in the show notes. Thank you for listening, and this is Kim Allchurch Flick saying have a great week.

Be safe out there.

Camilla Taylor: Thank you so much. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Thank you. Bye-bye. 

Camilla Taylor: Bye.