Tag: Portland Business Community

Kim Allchurch Flick: Hello everyone. This is Kim Allchurch Flick of the Mighty Measure Podcast, and I’m thrilled to be here today with a friend. Tom Hering is co-founder and managing partner of Benefit Corporations for Good, also known as BCFG, an organization he launched in 2018 along with Mary Anne Harmer to grow the benefit company movement across Oregon and North America.

Under his leadership, BCFG has certified businesses in 13 states and one Canadian province championing a triple bottom line of people, planet, and profit. He is the co-founder of two books. Putting soul into business, how the BI Benefit Corporation is transforming American business and 25 building blocks to create a conscientious organization and currently serves as a member of the advocacy action team for the Interfaith Alliance on Poverty.

Tom holds a degree from the University of Oregon School of Journalism and Communication. Today we’re gonna talk about. Does your small business truly reflect its values? And there’ll be some key takeaways why a responsible small business communicates its values to all stakeholders. What lies at the heart of small businesses practicing the triple bottom line, and how a small business builds in accountability to its mission, vision, and values.

Tom, welcome. It’s so great to have you here. 

Tom Hering: It is awesome to be with you, Kim. I am honored and look forward to chatting with you here over the next few minutes and see if I can, help bring some interesting viewpoint or enlighten a few people or just reaffirm some things to some of the great leaders that might be listening to your podcast, 

Kim Allchurch Flick: all of the above.

And a nod to Mary Anne Harmer. I met her first and she led me to BCFG in 2018, and we’ve all been friends ever since. So I am truly blessed by that. So let’s start with what has been your life journey and the inspirations that brought you to this point? 

Tom Hering: This is just a very interesting question. I know that, you sent these ahead to me, Kim, to look at ’em, and really, my journey is simply defined by three x.

All right. And honestly, I didn’t really figure out how they were connected until I was deep into this one, the third one. And little bit about the first two acts they were spent in advertising. I was copyrighted creative director. Are two decades of learning how to shape stories communicate what a company stands for.

And I really did love it at that time, but somewhere along the line I started asking a harder question, particularly in my second act, that what do I actually wanna stand for? And, the question started to become impossible to ignore. And that is I wanted my third act to mean something beyond the campaign, beyond the ads, beyond the beyond beyond the radio spots.

And so I started exploring the intersection of business and purpose, along with my co-founder and now retired partner Mary Anne Harmer. And that’s when we discovered the Benefit Corporation structure. The idea that a company could embed its commitment to people and plan it into its legal DNA, not just in its marketing materials or pr brochures.

But something that was genuinely electrifying. And my inspirations have always been, the entrepreneur, the entrepreneurs who refuse to accept the false choice between profit and purpose, that they were not, opposites but actually work together. And those business owners who you know, who look at their team, their community, their environment, and say, these are not trade-offs, these are responsibilities.

Every one of our certified members in the BCFG community inspires me, including you, Kim, and you are our very first certified BCFG. I want listeners to know about that. And we’re very humbled still to this day by that and you all in, in that community and our community are really proof that there’s another way of doing business.

You know that it’s not only possible, but it is actually happening.

Kim Allchurch Flick: What a lovely way to put it. And thank you for the nod. It’s the so much fun. I was so delighted to hear about BCFG. And learn what you and Maryanne were putting together. And I thought, I’m, I’ve gotta be on board and haven’t looked back. I’m so delighted. What are you seeing and hearing in the community and what do you see about you in terms of what you’re doing and how the community’s responding?

Tom Hering: Yeah the way I see it as the communities we serve are small business owners and they are simultaneously really the most underestimated. And as I see the most powerful force in the American economy the issue I see most clearly with them, it’s a trust a deficit. Consumers are, increasingly skeptical of corporate purpose claims and rightfully so. purpose washing is everywhere. I remember hearing about greenwashing so much the very first time I heard about Oregon Benefit Company in 2017. From a good friend of ours in the Oregon Secretary of State’s office, and, there’s this thing about companies plastering sustainability language across their websites without a shred of accountability behind it.

And I think the cynicism, it damages everyone, including the businesses that are general, generally trying to do things right. Another issue that bubbles up for me is accessibility. The infrastructure for purpose-driven business has historically been built for larger companies with ESG departments or legal teams that have the monies to engage with those those specialists, those subject matter experts and small businesses, which represent the vast majority of employers in our country have been largely locked out.

And so that’s why we came up with Benefit Corporations for Good a, a solution that has a certification but is aimed at the small business person. And this is from solopreneurs to, we have a few businesses that are in the thousands, a 1500 thousand employees are teams. But for the most part, they’re for smaller businesses.

And our standard really was developed alongside, respected bodies like B Lab and what is the other one I’m thinking about? Green America, GRI, those are similar organizations that are recognized by the Oregon Secretary of State. And designed to be really accessible to small businesses, and we are humbled to be on the, on that page with those three other great business organizations.

And then we also offer something just as valuable as the certification itself. And I call that community, when our purpose-driven business owners find each other. They’re able to accelerate and encourage and inspire each other, and they share practices, they refer customers, and the cool thing is that they really raise the bar collectively.

And so the solution really to a trust deficit is verifiable accountability. And I think that’s what we provide to these purpose-driven leaders that become part of our community. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: I concur from my vantage point as well being in Portland, but also you’re building this across several states and your gatherings are mostly in person, but there are some virtual ones as well, and they aren’t typical networking events.

I think the magic that you do is bring people together where everyone gets to announce who they are, what they do. And it’s a chance to see who’s in the room. And it brings people much closer together. And I know that I personally have done business with a lot of BCFG businesses because of that, because we’ve had a chance to shake each other’s hand and say hi.

But not in a sense of networking. It’s more in a sense of the commonality of we’re all here too. Work our butts off, earn money and do it for a higher purpose. And everyone has their own individual view of that. 

Tom Hering: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. To use an old cliche, you are all singing out of the same hymn book, and it delights me to no end.

When we have those happy hour for good events or get togethers that bring not only just to our community, but others that are interested or are also purpose-driven leaders, nonprofit leaders come, that it is something that inspires me. That’s what really keeps me going. It is it’s great energy and I’m grateful for every one of those really inspiring professionals that are in the same room on those events in particular, to see that energy and that connect connection.

Kim Allchurch Flick: And I think you also do something magical, which is bring a focal point. There’s always someone who’s talking about something specific for 15 to 20 minutes, not too long, not too short, and yet it, it encapsulates the meaning for a particular event. So you’re very, very good at that. We’re gonna switch gears just a little bit and say, what are some of the obstacles and challenges that you’re seeing these days?

Tom Hering: Yeah, so I, yeah, I came up with three. And these are the ones that, it definitely enters my mind and my heart, pretty regularly every week. And, the very first one is really about scale and advocacy and certification for good. Don’t necessarily attract traditional interested investors.

We’re not a product, with a hockey stick kind of growth curve. We’re really building infrastructure for a moment and a movement, I should say, and that requires a different kind of patient mission aligned support. Finding that support at the scale needed to grow our impact remains our most persistent challenge.

And so that’s cer certainly one of the three obstacles challenges I think that are on that weigh on me pretty regularly. And the second one is what I call purpose fatigue. There’s so much noise around ESG and sustainability and social impact. That I feel business owners and consumers are becoming somewhat numb.

When everyone claims to be purposeful, nothing feels meaningful. And our job is really to cut through that noise with something concrete and certification and accountability and annual reporting all add up to, to proof not promises. And I think that’s a good direction.

And then the last one, and this has been one, since Maryanne and I founded this in this organization in 2018 it’s the awareness gap. And it’s surprising how few people still know about the Oregon Benefit Company or the Benefit Corporation across the United States at this time and date, even though that ability for a business to incorporate as one has been on the books since 2008.

We’re talking almost 20 years. A remarkable number of small business owners have never heard of it, and a lot of them are living the triple bottom line in practice how they run their businesses. They just don’t know that there’s a legal framework and a certification that formalizes and then validates exactly what they’re doing.

Every conversation we have is partly in education, and education at scale takes time and resources. That’s something I finally have accepted. So none of these, it’s funny, Kim. None of these challenges really discourage me, but they certainly help clarify the work that I need to do as the leader of this community.

Kim Allchurch Flick: And you’re doing it well and you bring up something really important it that it is true. There is still greenwashing and purpose washing, looking good, but not really doing it. And then there’s the other thing that you and I have talked about is in our community, finding these small companies bumping into some, someone in retail may be walking through a door and it’s obvious that they’re doing things with heart, with soul, with purpose, doing some really great things.

And to see the depth at which they are thinking about their employees, their sourcing. This happens a lot in food. And so ask a couple more questions what is your purpose? What are your values? What do you do? And. They tell me and then I say, oh, and how do you track that?

Oh, we don’t. Or, it’s, or there’s some vry to it. So there’s the also this I’m not gonna call it a trend, that’s not what I see, but people that really are doing great things and they haven’t thought about really bringing that to light and the value of measuring and documenting and keeping track of that and.

I find that because of our work my work as well, because I live in the certifications and verifications world and want to showcase what companies are doing, and part of that is measuring and reporting it so that consumers can find the companies that are doing well and know exactly what it means to these ones that are doing great things and don’t showcase it at all.

And. And that seems to be a gap. And I was wondering what you’re seeing in that regard too. Not the over promising ones, but the ones who are doing great things and can’t even find it on their website or 

Tom Hering: I think that’s, getting that message out and clarifying that there is some third party that’s helping, to validate claims that have been made by businesses that are doing good is a helpful thing. And you’re right, there are many that are doing that, and I think that’s the one thing that Maryanne and I saw. Back in 2018 is that there were so many good small solopreneurs, small businesses doing amazingly good work but didn’t either have the time or the resource to go through a formal certification.

I think until we, I think we came along at least and offered an alternative there, things that are really making me optimistic because I was talking about my challenges, but I think there’s some things that are really making me optimistic. Data Next Generation and the businesses I meet every day are totally fueling that for me.

So a couple interesting recent stats here. For your audience and this is really some data that is pretty much unambiguous. So PricewaterhouseCoopers in 2024 in their voice of consumer survey, found that consumers are willing to pay nearly 10% more. For sustainability produced goods, and this is even in an inflationary environment.

So this was just two years ago, not even two years ago, Deloitte found that purpose-driven companies retain employees at a 40% higher rate. And a 2024 study from them showed that 94%, 94% of Gen Z consumers expect companies to address social and environmental issues. These aren’t fringe numbers, they’re mainstream market signals.

The way I see it. This next generation does give me enormous hope particularly millennials and Gen Z. They aren’t asking whether businesses that you know, business asking the question whether a business should be purposeful, but rather they’ve already decided it should be. They’re the dominant consumer and work workforce for the next three decades.

And they’re businesses that the businesses that understand this now are gonna have a structural advantage for sure. We always say to businesses that are considering coming to our community or whatever certification standard they might be seeking, is that if you really wanna attract the best and the brightest in terms of employees, make sure that you’re paying attention to the needs of those two generations.

And that is. Basically they wanna work for a business that does more than just make a profit. And, and then I guess the last thing really is that there are the inspiration I find are from, as I mentioned earlier, the business owners themselves. Every company that we’ve certified, from solar providers to law firms, to artisan food producers.

It’s proof that profit and purpose are not opposites. And these opportunities aren’t sacrificing performance for values. They’re discovering that values, their values are a competitive advantage. And so when I look at all of this together I just don’t feel optimistic. I feel like we’re on the, the right side of history.

We’re really at an inflection point, I think, and I think that history is moving faster than a lot of people realize. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: I think you’re so right and it’s why I think I have the best seat in the house with this podcast series as well, is hearing the stories of those people and collectively how much optimism I have as well.

Because there are innovators and creators and supporters that are doing something for good and collectively, this is a pretty large force of just values and purpose-driven people. In concentric circles all over the place. 

Yes, and 

and you’re right. And it’s really encouraging to hear those statistics as well.

Very encouraging. Yeah. And tell me about the expansion. Other states you’re in 13 states now. Not all states have the, legal entity of Benefit Corporation, but a lot do. And what are you seeing beyond the local area? 

Tom Hering: I think they’re very similar. right now, I think it’s 40 states that offer Benefit Corporation legislation.

And I gotta believe that almost every state’s gonna have that at one time or another. Before this whole chapter I guess is written, but what I see a really no different than what I’ve seen in the businesses that we’ve certified in in Oregon. They they’re very purpose driven.

It’s all built Kim, on values. Their values are aligned. All 13 states have values that are aligned. And I think this is something that I always say, even in our happy hours for Good, which is in person here in Portland, and that is, people should be talking with one another.

It’s always one of, you’ve heard my pitch, dozens of times now. But I always say to everybody in the room, and we have plenty of people that are new that come each time that are not necessarily certified, but I say. You should be talking to your neighbor who, even if you don’t know them at this point, because your values are aligned, and why would you not wanna do business with somebody who, believes and acts the same way that you do in terms of how you run your business?

So I see that in these, 13 o other states. I just certify one of our businesses in New Mexico two weeks ago. And it always comes through loud and clear that, they are built on. The belief that the triple bottom line that people, planet and profit that idea is the only way to do business.

And they’re doing it, they’re doing that. They’re reflecting that in their certification process with BCFG. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Well, congratulations. That’s another state. And I think the other thing I see happening with the magic that you create between companies, and I wanna say not everyone’s like-minded, but certainly like valued.

And I think the beauty of it all is also diversity of thought that comes into it. Diversity of businesses, diversity of the types of people running those business and working with those businesses, but doing the work together and discovering. Supply chain. Discovering potential partnerships, discovering supporters, discovering contractors discovering.

Helpers and the assistants and all within that community and beyond. And I know that because of it, I’ve found great companies to work with that I didn’t know of if I wouldn’t, may not have known of if it wasn’t for your group. And because of the group, we’re all getting to know each other more. And that differentiator is values driven because we all have competition too, and some values driven, some not.

But having that differentiator and being able to find it is really, really something. 

Tom Hering: It really is. And you’re right. And that’s a, another real benefit of being certified is it is a clearly a differentiator in how you market your business. And it’s something to be, as I said earlier, something that younger generations are particularly looking for.

And they will do their due diligence and they will look to see what does this business, whether they’re a customer or a prospective customer or a prospective employee. Or just a prospective supportive community member, see what this particular business stands for and stands up for, is what I say. So 

Kim Allchurch Flick: abs, absolutely.

And would you mind talking a little bit about the evolution of BCFG since 2018 and what the assessment’s and any changes you’ve made to it? 

Tom Hering: Yeah, I think ours, is a, it’s a simple process. Really there are just we say there are really three things to move forward into our community. And that first thing is obviously to see if you’re a good fit. And we have a free values alignment quiz that is on our homepage. There are 12 questions. It takes you less than two minutes. You get a good idea of whether you’re a good fit now, whether you’re working toward it.

And then we’re able to offer some follow up information to help them get on that path if they need more help. Secondly we always suggest that they incorporate their business or amend their business if they’re already incorporated to include that benefit company or benefit corporation box and that structure in their legal documents on their Secretary of States website.

And then the questionnaire is 60 questions. Somebody goes through it, and our pricing is all based on the number of FTEs in a particular company. And as you could imagine, we, the majority are in our smallest fee range. And that’s five FTEs or less. And those questions are based on eight standards.

And the eight standards are understanding the values of Benefit Corporation, what we call conscientious leadership diversity, equity, inclusion. Green practices, community engagement, customer service, strategic business practices, and work life, or what we call life balance. 60 questions based around those and it’s self-evaluating.

And then once somebody’s done, we ask if they’re supporting documentation on why you gave yourself a particular score. To include that. And then we go through the process of not only scoring, but evaluating what are some quality steps that you might be able to take to improve your scores and here’s where you’re doing great work.

And recently we’ve added a new written report then that follows that we hadn’t been doing that. Because of our, what we felt was a very low price point. But now we’ve added this not only in documentation, but in scoring and an infographic that shows a company leader what’s being done well and where can we improve and something they can refer to each year.

And we do, speaking of each year, we do require our founding 20. Businesses. Our first 20 businesses ask that we bake in some real accountability, and that is the annual benefit report must be produced. That is pretty much a legal requirement in all 40 states. How did you improve people and planet, or that’s the simple word.

There’s some more policy statement that talks about positive impact, positive material impact on people and planet. But and nobody gets re-certified in our committee until that report has been, not only created and, but it has to be published on that particular businesses website.

Kim Allchurch Flick: That’s super important. And you’re saying something that is so. Critical to remember is the state is requiring it, it’s, it is written in there and that means make it public. It can be on a website. And there are other organizations we know other verifications and certifications that are also saying Benefit report annually must be public.

I find re-certifying annually to be. Something where you gotta brew a good pot of tea or something and sit down and just do it. You’ve made it so it can be saved and can go back to it. But I also find that I love having a sense to look back and look forward and retrench. Certification is usually the hardest because sometimes we don’t know what documents to prepare, and that’s where consultants and people like I come in.

But also, once you’ve done it. The documentation doesn’t have to change. It needs to be updated, but the platforms created can be similar and it doesn’t have to feel like a second job. It can be part of the operations to keep documenting in those eight standards, and then you’re ready to prepare and in some ways, preparing for taxes annually.

Feeds into this type of documentation because if you’re a company that’s tracking philanthropy volunteer hours, things of that nature, then you’ve got some of the documentation there anyway. And I think that’s where some people get scared and put off is they think that the tracking is gonna feel like a heavy load, but when it becomes.

When it becomes I’m trying to find the right word for it, but when you have a system 

And can create a system that works really well, it can be plugged into so many different things and you feel really good about it. But for companies that do have employees or to be able to share with partners, like to attract part partners in a supply.

That’s also something that becomes really great to share and people start to find each other. 

Yeah, so 

I think what you’re doing has so many layers to it, that the assessment itself is one thing, but what it does for companies is many things. And that’s great to know and it has been updated. And tell us a little bit about your outreach too and how you’re being supported by and are supportive of the U of O students and others.

Yeah that’s a bright spot too. That’s a really cool thing. 

Tom Hering: It is a very bright spot. So I’ve been fortunate. So this is almost the end next week I think is the end of my fourth year of engaging with Allen Hall pr, which is a student run. PR organization with the University of Oregon, my alma mater, and I’ve had the privilege of working with a different student team the last four years who’ve helped me and BCFG with its social media and some great creative thinking to help me problem solve particularly when it comes to communication.

About our community about our businesses, and it’s, I’m gonna do it again. I’m gonna be, I’m gonna be signing up for year five because it’s something that I get their creativity and their energy and their smarts, and they get a little bit of mentoring from me. But I’ve had some students on those teams that have gone on and are doing great things at very young ages at least in my perception.

And it’s been a total delight and joy. They’re just really I think students today, the majority that work on these teams, they’re passionate and yet they’re really maxed on time on the time that they have because the majority of them are all working as well. They’re working part-time to get themselves through school.

And, I was privileged to go to a time where I could work on a summer and make enough money to put myself through school. And that’s just not a realistic thing. So I even have I place even a higher value of what they bring because of that and because. They have been doing such good work for our community.

Kim Allchurch Flick: Yes. And I see the products of that on your LinkedIn post. I know they’ve been creating some of those graphics. Yes. And that beautiful infographic that you create for the people that have certified, that becomes a beautiful marketing tool and something to put in a benefit report. But the highlighting that you’re doing of members and when the teams show up at the BCFG happy hours and when they do a survey.

All these things are a huge part of the community that’s built through BCFG, and I’m very appreciative and I know a lot of other people are as well. So what makes you optimistic? 

Tom Hering: Optimistic I think is pretty much, what I think I mentioned a little bit ago about just having meeting with the company leaders, these business owners.

They’re the ones that truly make me the most optimistic. I see them firsthand. I’ve met them. Some screen to screen, but mostly face-to-face and what they’re doing and their commitment as leaders to do something that is very mission-driven. Even though they’re not necessarily nonprofits, but they are very mission-driven in how they approach their business.

I recently certified a business in the last two weeks. That is doing some amazing work for teenage financial literacy, and I am just absolutely blown away by these two co-founders who. Found this deep need through one of the founder’s nephews as a matter of fact. And it’s being around people that wanna do good and not only wanna do good, but are doing good, Kim, that really give me this good, healthy dose of optimism and a world, at least from my viewpoint, that needs a whole lot of it right now.

And that’s where I can find it for me for sure. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: I thank you for that. Yeah, it’s, it, this is 2026 and people are having some challenges and, we find this network that we have in our community, but also see in other communities of mission-driven, values driven entrepreneurship. That there’s a lot, and that’s where I find my optimism is small, but collective is mighty and I think there’s a lot of good people.

People are doing some really great things and you also help bring people together so that they can see it. And because of that, I mean I’ve been able to hire people and get jobs done with because I’ve met people through your organization and your networking, and I have an opportunity to really find out how they feel and how.

They care about their employees. One was solar panels and it was a really rough time because of tariffs. And they were talking about the, the employees were talking about how they loved working for this company, power Northwest, that, and they’d been with other companies that probably would’ve laid them off, but.

They, they kept their jobs, but the other thing I saw is they were empowered to be creative problem solvers and they really worked together and issues came up and they solved together. And I was able to observe it and they were great to be around and they did a phenomenal job. So I think that’s part of it too.

It ripples down and it ripples up and it ripples through everything that companies do because when employees recognize it and feel happy and they say, yeah, we could go to a similar company anywhere, but we wouldn’t be treated like this. That’s just one example. And we have others. And you know who they are too.

But some produce, food, some produce, services, some produce a variety of things. And collectively it really makes a difference in how we do our work, but also how we live our lives. 

Tom Hering: Absolutely. Yes. Yeah, it makes a real difference. I think that whole stakeholder’s approach versus a shareholder’s approach works wonders for everybody in a business across the board.

And I think the one thing that, again, we see that is a very consistent marker of the leaders that are in our community is this idea. Not necessarily a new idea, but still a great one is servant leadership. They walk alongside their employees, not in front of them, and their team members and they’re all treated equally.

And it is really refreshing and that’s why. Employees, team members stay together. They recognize that. And this whole, this example you just shared Kim about Power Northwest is, I didn’t, I wasn’t aware of that. It’s very impressive. And I believe that’s happened to a couple other companies recently that I’ve, recertified.

So I’ve been hearing the same kind of story. It’s just how these leaders are built. It’s what’s in, their DNA. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Absolutely.

Every once in a while somebody’ll say, oh, we’re not gonna recertify anymore for a variety of reasons, but we’re doing the work. What do you see and what are your thoughts about that?

Tom Hering: Yeah. I think that’s a, it’s a, it’s an interesting question and certainly we’ve had, a good number of businesses that have chosen not to recertify with us. I think, my feeling is that. The mission of that particular business might have changed the profitability of that organization might have changed.

And that has been probably the most, those are the two most common reasons why people haven’t recertified with BCFG. Now, I recently heard from a. Business that had been certified then did not recertify for two years, and now wanna be back and recertify. And I said absolutely. They said that they believe in our mission.

We were helpful as a community. They’re still struggling a little bit, but they’re working out, their revenue scenario. And I always say particularly to to historically challenge communities, we do offer scholarships too. That means, there is no cost to go through our certification if there indeed is a financial challenge with that particular business. As long of course as they’re aligned and with the triple bottom line movement. So we try to do that as well. But overall, I think that the majority, we have businesses like you, Kim, that have been with us, eight, nine years now I think, and several as a matter of fact.

I think what it help, what helps with businesses that continue to recertify is it, I was gonna mention as we were talking earlier. That a leader gets each year at the recertification while it at 60 questions seems pretty onerous to some people. I understand it, particularly if you’re a solopreneur, but the information that you glean from just going through that process, even if I’m not involved, that leader is able to recognize almost right off the bat, here are some things I need to be doing better.

Let’s see what BCF GC is doing this. It’s this self-awareness of, wow, here’s a way I can improve my business with my team members. Here’s something that I’m missing. Or I haven’t thought about this particular grain practice. Why haven’t I looked into that? It is an ama It’s very enlightening.

You’ve been through it and I know that you’ve discovered that yourself. And I think that’s the one thing that I keep telling people that even though I heard from one of our leaders and I, a solopreneur and rightfully so, just a week ago on, on how, she saw this questionnaire and thought, oh my gosh, 60 questions.

Do I have time? And that’s the question. It’s not that they, that she didn’t believe in it, but did she have the time? And I said, here’s how to do it. Chunked this out. However, whatever guidance I could give her. But in the end I know that she will find some new things that will help her be a better purpose-driven leader and as a result, better purpose driven business, which I think is gonna be more attractive too.

The, types of customers and prospective customers that she wants as part of her business. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: I concur. And I think it also goes back to those statistics, and I’ve always done the older Nielsen 20, I think 20 14, 20 17, that said two thirds of consumers globally were willing to pay more for products and services when they know a company has good values.

I’m paraphrasing. And around 2017, they said that 73% were millennials, and now you have the 2024 PricewaterhouseCoopers. Are justifying paying up to 10% more in the Deloitte, up to 24% more, and 94% of Gen Zs expect values driven. So having a verification helps all those percentages of people find you if you’re a company owner and also helps us find each other.

When we wanna do business, ’cause we as business people are also consumers 

Yes. Of 

something either whether B2B or B2C. So having the proof points and that beautiful infographic, it can be enlightening for somebody who’s looking to do business with someone who’s has great values. So that’s one of the reasons why I personally am driven to recertify, is to keep current, to keep up to date.

Also, because I like to know how things work and I help others do their certification. So I have a different motive. But I also have a motive for myself, and that is striving and being recognized. For that and what you have as an infographic and a badge that is becoming increasingly recognizable.

And so all of this helps because consumerism is full of, we know this, millions of messages daily and how do we sort through it? So this is, gives people a way to, to cut through. And those percentages I think are very important. And, but I also don’t wanna dismiss that there are people who’ve been consumers longers.

Baby boomers onwards, and a lot of those people have good values too, whether it’s originally or evolved over time. And people are also getting more data. And the more we know, the more we might seek to do something good or work with companies that are doing good and there are new innovations that didn’t exist back, didn’t give us choices.

So having new choices also means we can shift and our values can be pointed in that direction to make choices. 

Tom Hering: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: So what else would you like to share? 

Tom Hering: I just, I think what I would share maybe is a couple things, how people might be able to help me better listening help me move the needle a little bit more on this expanding this community.

And I would say, the first and probably obvious one is maybe to tell someone about it. And particularly if you’re a small business owner listening who cares about the world they’re operating in, thinks about their team, their community, their carbon footprint, tell ’em a little bit about BCFG.

I, being in the, my first two acts in the advertising world, word of mouth from Trusted Voices is still our most powerful growth engine, and I don’t think that’s ever gonna change. The second is maybe if you’re interested to champion certification as a standard.

As you were saying earlier, we live in a world where consumers and partners increasingly and those stats from Pricewater House Coopers you know, and Deloitte increasingly, underscore that people wanna support businesses that mean what they say. And if you’re in a position to, to recommend vendors or choose choose certified benefit corporations or certified B Corps you know that they’ve been verified if you’re a journalist or an investor or a community leader, talk about certification, the way you talk about other quality standards and normalize this expectation of accountability.

And then I guess again, maybe just as a little part A part B of the last, second point I just made there about championing certification is think about maybe being a certified member. And again, whether it’s through our community or through one of the other three communities in Oregon, or many of them are available throughout the United States.

Do that. I just put a pitch for us is that we’re a Lean Oregon. Organization. We have an outsized mission. Every dollar, every relationship we bring in, goes directly into building the infrastructure for a more accountable econ economy. We don’t need everyone to do all three.

We just need more people maybe to do one of those things. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Well said. How can people reach you? 

Tom Hering: The best front door is obviously our website benefit corporations for good.com. I know it’s a mouthful. Everything lives there. You know how certification works who’s already part of our community.

You can see the annual benefit reports of those that have been recertified. You know how to start a conversation about becoming a certified member. If you wanna stay connected with our movement, the. Best practices, member stories, policy updates tips and tricks.

Sign up for our newsletter. It’s also available on the website. We make it worth your inbox. And, if you’re a small business owner who’s asking the right questions about what your business stands for I’d love to hear from you directly. You can reach out through the website.

Our work really grows through conversation more than anything. I’m generally energized by every, small business leader, entrepreneur who’s ready to take the next step towards accountability. And then I’ll just say the one thing that we’ve just been building out is if you wanna even just learn more quickly.

Our YouTube channel now is getting several shorts that have been posted. They’re usually one minute, and that’s at ben Kors for good.com. You can find us on the YouTube channel. So those are some ways that you certainly can reach us. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Very clever and I highly recommend the newsletter as well.

You always have great tips and all sorts of things happening, and it’s for beyond Oregon. It’s a really solid, good monthly newsletter. Yes. 

Tom Hering: Yeah. Yes. Appreciate 

Kim Allchurch Flick: it. So thank you so much. And now for the final question, if you could have dinner with up to three other people living or deceased for a beautiful table of four, who would they be and why?

Tom Hering: So this is, I’m smiling as I’m saying this because I, I thought about this more than I probably should admit, but I kept coming back to the same three people. And not because they’d agree with each other, because the tension would make for the most honest, important conversation I could imagine.

And because I recently read what, I could probably say is the most important and memorable book I’ve ever read. It was the biography on Martin Luther King, Jr. And it’s a book called King by Jonathan eig. It was written in 2025, I believe, and it got the Pulitzer Prize. Dr.

King understood something that most business leaders still haven’t absorbed, and that is that economic justice and moral justice are inseparable. His vision, the of the beloved community wasn’t just about civil rights, it was about building an economy where every individual, every person has dignity.

That’s the North star of what we’re trying to do at BCFG. I’d want him, to push us on whether we’re being bold enough. Probably he’d say no. But the second seat would go to Yvonne Sheard the founder of Patag. And, most people who are aware of the B Corps community or of that particular organization, or both, know that he recently gave his entire company to a trusted, dedicated trust dedicated to fighting climate change.

He’s the most radical practitioner, I think of exactly what benefit corporations certification is meant to protect. He’s also as people that are, familiar with him know he’s a reluctant entrepreneur who stumbled into purpose. The same way many of our members do. Not by following a framework work, but by following his conscious or conscience or values, I would say.

So I’d wanna learn from him what he got right and what he’d do differently. And then the third seat’s gonna be probably a clank here. But this is the one people might raise an eyebrow as I said here. It goes to Milton Friedman. And so for those that are unfamiliar with him, he was the Nobel Prize winning economist who wrote the, the famous 1970 essay arguing that a corporation’s only social responsibility is to increase its profits.

And that essay became the intellectual foundation for shareholder primacy, the ideology that we at BCFG is, essentially built to challenge. We were built to challenge that. So I’d invite him not to argue, but to listen because I think if Friedman were sitting at the table with Dr.

King, with Yvonne Chouinard and with the evidence of what purpose-driven business actually produces for employees, for communities. For long-term value, he might be the most interesting person in the room to watch, change his mind. I think that dinner would be worth every minute. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: I think that would be amazing.

You’ve really got me thinking there. Yeah. And the snarky side of me wants to say, and I’d love to video the whole thing, encapsulate it and put it on 60 minutes.

Tom Hering: Maybe we could Yeah. Have Scott maybe get Scott Palley to introduce it too. Yeah. 

Kim Allchurch Flick: Indeed. Oh, well it is 2026. What are we gonna say? Yeah, Tom Hering you are a treasure. I also wanna thank you for. Just this the beauty and friendship you bring to everything. And a nod again to our friend Mary Anne Harmer, who co-founded with you and continues to be a friend to both of us and all things there.

Thank you for everything. Thank you audience for listening. This is Kim Allchurch Flick. I appreciate you listening to the Mighty Measure. Please share it with friends and listen to other episodes because there’s a common thread running through this and I’m noticing it sometimes purely by accident, but there’s a lot of good out there and a lot of people doing great things to give us a lot of optimism.

Thank you.